Podcast Notes | Wall Street Macro Investment Veteran Jordi Visser: When Believers Give Up on Crypto, It’s the Eve of the Biggest Market Rally

Organized & Compiled: TechFlow

TechFlow Guide: In the latest episode of the Convergence podcast, Wall Street macro investing veteran Jordi Visser, Head of AI Macro Nexus Research at 22V Research, engaged in a nearly 58-minute in-depth macro and technical review with host Luke Martin. Jordi Visser pointed out that the current bearish sentiment causing many crypto fundamentalists and seasoned participants to waver or even exit resembles the post-dot-com bubble "shredding" dormancy period from 2003 to 2007; precisely within this same time window, traditional finance billionaires and top-tier large capital have begun frequently knocking on doors, seriously questioning the fundamental logic behind asset tokenization and Hyperliquid.

Focusing on Bitcoin's recent 7 Sigma anomalous volatility and sell-side exhaustion signals, Jordi Visser systematically explained why this bull run must absolutely no longer remain merely a "liquidity injection trade," and used his early observations of "Ghost Cities" in China to forecast a historic turning point ignited by autonomous AI Agents unleashing the machine economy, accelerating stablecoin circulation velocity, and driving asset tokenization. Meanwhile, he deeply analyzed why Federal Reserve interest rates and oil prices have gradually lost their decisiveness, how Robinhood Chain and Hyperliquid facilitate the convergence of old and new financial systems, and why AI will rewrite traditional US stock market valuation logic, ceding the next structural growth window to the crypto ecosystem.

Guest: Jordi Visser (Head of AI Macro Research at 22V Research, Founder of Visser Labs, Former President & CIO of Weiss Multi-Strategy Advisers)

Host: Luke Martin (Host of Convergence podcast, senior crypto trader)

Source: Convergence / X (https://x.com/VentureCoinist/status/2120272504904110124)

Original Title: Why Everyone is Giving Up on Crypto at EXACTLY The Wrong Time

Air Date: November 10, 2026

Highlight Quotes

• "I don't care why people entered the crypto world in the first 16 years; what truly concerns me is AI agents."
• "Every time I see an asset consistently refusing to drop despite continuous bad news, it indicates the sell-side is completely exhausted; subsequently, any upward breakout serves as a confirmation signal for me that bears and sellers have run out of chips. Always remember, price leads narrative."
• "Relying on global liquidity growing 5% annually is impossible to support a 100 trillion dollar market cap crypto ecosystem; you must get those controlling 900 trillion in existing global wealth to genuinely trust this system and create real usage demand."
• "Comparing it to the 'Ghost Cities' I saw in China back then, the current crypto world still resembles an empty city lacking daily economic activity; just as App Store spawned Uber and Airbnb, AI agents are the key that will truly fill this city with economic participants."
• "Everyone should stop staring at the Fed, stop watching oil prices, stop fixating on interest rates. Applying pre-AI era macro textbooks to economic operating rules in an AI-era reality is fundamentally misplaced."
• "Buying a million-dollar building turns that money into stagnant 'dead money'; you can't tear off a piece of its facade to buy coffee at Starbucks; once real estate and various assets complete tokenization, activating the 900 trillion dormant wealth backing 120 trillion liquid currency, the explosive surge in Velocity of Money will completely rewrite everything."
• "I've never agreed with fundamentalists claiming we should 'never integrate with the old system.' Old and new systems are destined to converge, and ultimately the new system will gradually absorb and digest the old."
• "Today's global US stock market cap reaches $70 trillion, accounting for 72% of global equities, largely because the US dominated the previous internet generation; but AI will break monopolies and achieve capability democratization. Stocks will hardly continue past growth myths in the future, while the crypto world, with a total cap under $4 trillion, stands at the starting point of a new growth curve."

Article Body

As Believers Begin to Waver and Exit: From Dot-com Bubble "Shredding" to Traditional Financial Giants Knocking

Luke Martin: This week I've been repeatedly reflecting on your counterintuitive point: you believe the market must first see those who firmly believed in crypto lose faith before the real rally arrives. Why is it necessary to reach this point of shaken faith?

Jordi Visser: This is inseparable from my personal memories of the dot-com bubble. In 1999, I moved back to the US from Brazil, and that contrast still feels surreal to me today. I watched adult men cry on the streets in Brazil due to economic depression and severe currency devaluation, while emerging markets endured turbulence for two years. But upon returning to the US, I took over a massive trading account at Morgan Stanley. Everyone around me was bragging about internet stocks jumping from $2 to $100. Even friends from my high school days, born in working-class families, were talking about exchanging their AOL stock for a house.

As expected, the bubble eventually burst violently. Just four years later, those who had bragged everywhere barely wanted to mention stocks again. Their accounts were filled with chips plummeted to one cent, and mass enterprises went bankrupt. Those who poured in purely out of greed were thoroughly washed out. What remained were disillusioned structural builders and idealists. That brought us to 2004, but don't forget the iPhone was still three years away. From 2003 to 2007 was a protracted exhaustion period like being "shredded." The ecosystem seemed to constantly shrink, offering no end in sight.

The exact same feeling comes from today's crypto world. Recently, I dined with many insiders who were previously extremely bullish across all levels, even leveraged long on Bitcoin, but now they're beginning to doubt whether Bitcoin itself even has a future. Just yesterday, I participated in an interview where even the guest, known as a Bitcoin Maxi, admitted he felt the current setup no longer works. But for me, I don't care why people entered this industry over the past 16 years; what truly concerns me only lies ahead: AI Agents.

Luke Martin: Besides that surprising interviewee, among TradFi gatekeepers managing large capital or seasoned insiders in the circle, who else sparked conversations recently that really resonated with you?

Jordi Visser: Anyone observing the market long enough notices an interesting split: 90% of daily discussions happen inside crypto believer or retail communities with extremely pessimistic sentiment; meanwhile, increasingly heavyweight figures from traditional finance are privately reaching out to discuss questions hitting right at the core. They find me because my background is macro strategic trading; they trust I can answer using language they understand.

When Fed rate moves were just announced days ago, crypto circles were flooded with doomsday rhetoric, believing it was all over. But my mind was crystal clear: true bulls can absolutely no longer be built on liquidity injections. Now emerging from the traditional world are questions with actual weight: e.g., what does asset tokenization actually mean? Why would someone like Stan Druckenmiller invest in Hyperliquid?

In just the past 10 days, two multi-billionaire investors contacted me sequentially for deep dives. All asked about core questions touching foundational architecture: "What impact will tokenization have on the US dollar's status?" "What does it mean for the stock market?" On one side, circle believers lose heart; on the other, top legacy money does serious homework on the eve of forming fundamentals. This precisely shows the bedrock of a major market is being laid secretly.

Bitcoin 7 Sigma Reversal and "Price Leads Narrative": Why This Bull Run Must Be Fundamentals-Driven?

Luke Martin: Speaking of price action, that rapid BTC pull from $60k to $69k, you noted on Twitter it was a "7 Sigma" level reversal only appearing three times in the past decade. For viewers unfamiliar with statistics, did you tweet this to imply people should FOMO in? What's its true historical weight?

Jordi Visser: First, "Sigma" is absolutely a foundational concept every market participant should grasp. Imagine going to a hospital for a checkup: doctor measures BP at 120/80, looks normal by standard; but if you normally stay at 105/70, then 120/80 is actually high for you. Judging anomalies requires combining them with your own recent baseline. In markets, volatility is that baseline. Since BTC's rolling 60-day volatility was compressed to ultra-low levels, e.g., daily avg vol only 1.5%, suddenly exploding a 10% one-sided gain calculates to near 7 standard deviations, i.e., 7 Sigma volatility.

More importantly, I don't just look at one number, but multiple resonating signals. First, price broke through the 200-day moving average. Second, the MA200 itself showed a flat-to-rising inflection within a day or two. Third, prior to this, market endured dense bad news shocks including security hacks, AI sector turmoil, and Clarity Act pass probability dropping below 20%, yet BTC stubbornly held near $65k refusing new lows. When an asset calmly digests bad news without dropping, it only means one thing: sellers on-site have sold all they can. Subsequent volume spike breakout, even if triggered by a minor liquidity news, completely exposes shorts panic-buying and waiting momentum funds scrambling for positions.

Luke Martin: My first reaction to that candle immediately recalled 2019 when BTC spiked from $3k to $4.5k/$5k. After surges, people frantically retroactively applied all kinds of reasons to the price rise. Given your macro trading experience, is obsessing over attribution at the very start (Fed? macro improvement? MA break?) really important?

Jordi Visser: Answer is simple: Price always leads narrative. Once price surges vigorously, people naturally weave stories they wish to believe. Over these years, I've discussed extensively with Paul Tudor Jones, highly aligning on this: trends emerge, then markets scramble to slap explanatory labels on them.

As a macro trader focusing on long-term structural mega-trends, I'm always searching for fields standing at the starting line of super rallies, and I believe crypto is about to enter the largest wave in history. I dare be so confident because that epic, violent cleansing in 2021-2022 already happened. Unlike ordinary four-year cycles, that crash completed an extremely thorough bubble wash, logically very similar to dot-com bust.

Looking back, internet took off ~1994 until App Store explosion in 2009, a gap of exactly 15 years. In those 15 years, market invented absurd metrics like CPC or eyeballs to val disruptive tech, Amazon bubble burst, P/E didn't fall below 100 until 2014/2015, spawning entirely new valuation paradigms like SaaS.

Since Bitcoin whitepaper, we've walked a similar timeframe. Dot-com left excess fiber and debt cleanouts; crypto industry built excess infra after massive VC influx, now valuations fell, heavy losses/dilemma assets in young hands are being bottom-fished by senior industrial veterans who once ran Fortune 500s. This chip handoff proves speculation is stripped away, real structural innovation begins.

Luke Martin: You just emphasized BTC past decade was standard "liquidity trade," many blindly rush on printing press headlines, but you think liquidity driver won't work anymore. Some listeners might struggle to pivot. Why won't "liquidity logic" work going forward?

Jordi Visser: Because at a certain scale, scale dictates everything. When BTC hits ~$2T market cap vs global asset pool ~$900T, if anyone wants to map out BTC hitting $1M and entire crypto ecosystem reaching $100T, relying on global liquidity growing 5% annually is absolutely impossible.

Past early idealists driving this experiment either cashed out or pivoted to AI. Relying solely on RIAs allocating 1% of client portfolios utterly cannot support that volume. You must get pension funds and conservative capital truly controlling $900T in global stock wealth to internally generate trust and real usage demand. Ask any senior over 70, almost nobody truly understands or believes the "digital gold" store-of-value narrative for BTC.

To make them switch traditional fiat assets over, two prerequisites must be met: First, traditional fiat assets no longer earn passive returns. Second, a zero-friction bridge must exist. You can't expect 70-year-olds to fumble with complex private keys, mnemonics, and wallet setups. The process must be instant, handled automatically by AI Agents in the backend, and seamlessly backed by tokenized assets underneath. All of this relies on technological fundamentals, absolutely not central bank printing.

Chinese "Ghost City" Analogy and AI-Driven Deleveraging Deflation: Why Fed & Oil Prices No Longer Matter?

Jordi Visser: Speaking of infra-first demand-lag, I used another metaphor in today's article. From mid-2000s to 2013, I spent a full month annually in China. I personally visited so-called "Ghost Cities," witnessed vast arrays of magnificently built but utterly empty skyscrapers, and physically experienced what infrastructure waves pushed purely by abundant liquidity feel like.

In my view, up until now, the entire crypto world essentially remains a "Ghost City," with real economic activity not running daily inside it. But now Stripe is heavily M&A positioning, Robinhood is aggressively cutting into self-built chains, traditional finance all getting real investing money, meaning "tenants" are finally arriving. But people must grasp a core subversion: some Chinese ghost cities back then maybe never got enough human residents, but this digital crypto ghost city gets instantly filled because crypto was never designed for humans. It was born specifically for digital intelligence and AI Agents. Just as no App Store meant no Uber/Airbnb, AI Agents are the main economic participants who will completely activate and light up this crypto city.

Luke Martin: This "Ghost City activated by agents" perspective is profound! Before diving into how agents ignite the economy, borrowing your senior macro expert lens, one follow-up: Fed signals feel fuzzier lately, everyone debates hidden easing, especially with Kevin Warsh taking over contrasting Jerome Powell era. How much lethal power do Fed & oil prices really have on the market now?

Jordi Visser: My advice is direct: Everyone should immediately stop staring at the Fed, stop agonizing over oil, stop overwatching rate trajectories. I truly fail to understand why so many haven't learned despite countless lessons. Looking back at 2009-2019 pandemic cycle, many like to credit S&P 500 rise simply to QE. Fact is opposite: back then homebuilders, automakers, airlines etc majority of S&P 500 traditional firms had zero substantive growth, even long stagnating; purely carried by Mag 7 artificially proping their S&P weight to 30%.

I assert Fed matters less now because economic engine fully switched to AI-driven. AI sector almost completely insensitive to rates. Within 1-2 years, Agent Swarms will unleash unprecedented super-deflationary productivity. E.g., recent Navier-Stokes equation breakthrough, unsolved century math problem even predating Einstein. 7×24 collaborative AI agent clusters not only solve scientific problems humans can't crack, but easily breach human safety nets, showing human intellectual efficiency can't compare.

Compare oil/rate data: When I frequently visited China in 2007, Brent oil hit $110. Today's oil isn't even higher than 2007, yet同期 S&P 500 gained 2-3x, resident assets tripled. An energy commodity under $110 in globally doubled/tripled size economy raises how much wave? As for rates, most American homeowners locked mortgages at ~3%. Raising 500 bps + 10% inflation didn't crush 2022 into recession, while billionaires holding massive capital actually profited from high rate interest. Current corporate earnings still maintain ~30% rapid growth. Applying pre-AI era rate/oil recession scripts to AI era markets is literally joking.

Luke Martin: Hearing you decompose this, indeed no need to anxiously watch Fed officials or Kevin Warsh snippets daily. Stepping back though, despite fundamentals breaking free from traditional macro bounds, doesn't psychological expectation of fund managers with heavy capital still unaffected by oil/yields?

Jordi Visser: Directly verify with recent tape. S&P 500 basically flat since June. Look what happened: Jun 25 onwards, oil jumped from 70+ to breaking 100, 10Y Treasury yield climbed from 4.30% to 5%. Per old script market should have crashed, yet S&P merely flatlined! If even oil >100 and Treasuries hitting 5% can't crush stocks, imagine what rebound momentum explodes if 10Y yields retreat just 20bps and oil slightly pulls back?

Crucially, current so-called "Mag 8" (adding Oracle) sits just ~1% from ATH. Today 7 of 8 re-crossed above 50 DMA. Whole year only 3 days saw 8 simultaneously above 50 DMA, now 7 gather above. As long as broad market withstands this bad-news-flatlining a few more days, its structure matches BTC just exiting sell-side exhaustion: proves all worst expectations priced in, while earnings sprint high in earnings season ahead of midterm elections.

AI Agents Become Economic Entities: Why Machines Choose Crypto & Stablecoins, Not Traditional Dollars?

Luke Martin: After macro resilience chat, switching back to your core engine: chain infra built now. My screen runs 30+ agents now, some clearing email at midnight, some scheduling. Sometimes mess with unauth things. With crypto fi infra ready, what agent commercial activities will ignite real growth for BTC/crypto economy?

Jordi Visser: What runs on your screen are "Personal Efficiency Agents," saving time. What ignites economy are "Consumer Agents" directly interfacing external commerce. Meta launched personal AI assistant last week, private Instinct AI focused on life execution jumped from $2.5B to $10B valuation. Payment giant Stripe heavily M&As upstream/downstream consumption pay stack, bagging OpenRouter. All signals point to future: autonomous agent networks fully take over trading.

Many heard Leopold Aschenbrenner's 165-page report "Situational Awareness," but I doubt many read page 71 chart. Chart explicitly points out, once AI crosses "Auto-research agents" threshold, tech enters absolute parabolic exponential flight, including curing cancer, solving Navier-Stokes, even rumors top labs solved multiple world-class math problems internally.

Leopold wrote report in 2024, predicting this inflection to 2027, but reality progress bar clearly faster than prophecy! So if such top auto-research nodes approach closely, lower-barrier consumer agents inevitably boom.

This is why I always advocate "macro & fundamentals converging." In traditional stocks, macro PMs and fundamental PMs reading reports differ in style, but ultimately watch same equity earnings logic; crypto is extremely polarized, BTC Maxis only talk macro/libertarianism, ETH/SOL ecosystems only talk apps/fundamentals, sides die enemies. I steadfastly bullish on both merging.

Picture today, even me immersed in AI finds Robinhood Chain wallet setup validation tedious, a 70yo couldn't endure. But consumer agents completely flatten this threshold. Instinct AI handles Brazil visas/payment flows autonomously.

Met typical real case: Delta accused of using AI to identify user privacy/payment capacity for dynamic price hikes. Friend said ticket checked grew $130 in an hour. I told him opponent deployed AI pricing agent. Only solution send your personal AI agent to duel airline's AI agent for bargaining, AI-vs-AI negotiation, market returns fair competition. Historical order must have BTC build consensus, then chain eco feeds back BTC, now precisely entered stage where app eco takes flag charging forward.

Luke Martin: I must raise sharp skepticism here rational faction. Coinbase founder Brian Armstrong strongly argued in David Senra pod agents must use crypto wallets for 7×24 cross-border settle, CB hardens infra; but I see savvy AI founders in Silicon Valley rebut: "Why force AI to use crypto? Just authorize CC info for agent to settle USD." Even I wavered hearing. Why firmly believe agents choose BTC/stablecoins, not just keep using USD?

Jordi Visser: First fully agree, at present high-freq micropayments main force definitely stablecoins, BTC handles large settle/core collateral. Example transfer $100, Venmo does conveniently; involving $1M outbound, retail pay tools can't handle, must rely on BTC as mutually trusted ultimate clearance card/collateral.

Deeper deciding logic: "Zero friction & profit structure conflict." Traditional USD pay clearing network (issuers or gateways) inherently commercial companies, shareholders to please, margin targets to meet, determines traditional systems physically impossible ever reduce friction fees to zero. AI era essence everything tends to extreme deflation, AI agents naturally race toward net lowest cost/speed to viciously compress optimal solution.

Back Delta flight: Human opens browser inputs info orders, in that time backend AI sync scans 17 airlines for quotes, compresses all middle premiums to limit. Same happens globally forex/commerce pays. Once merchants/users agent-handled, Agent-to-Agent don't want detour to feed legacy intermediaries. Current only need convert to USD because physical cafes haven't adopted on-chain payments; once enters agent-to-agent dialogue, stablecoin/crypto rail frictionless channel wins outright.

Think mobile internet early days, stepdad refused Uber 7 years, eventually used smoothly. Once early agent users auto-hunt deals on StubHub or monitor restaurant waitlist cancellations to save money/time, youth spread dividend rapidly, teach parents/grandparents. Security risk concerns easily solved, like setting Venmo limits, hardcode agent ops wallet $100/$2k cap.

Hides blind spot majority legacy investors haven't grasped: once paradigm crosses 10 users to 1k/10k critical mass, AI-agent driven on-chain fundamental expansion exponentially uncontrollable. Last May tariff storm/rebound, I wrote multiple reports on AI "Inference" compute blast, daily running hedge fund offices recommending to smartest PMs, they ignored inference meaning, obsessed tariffs. Result I said, when you realize study inference, Micron price already 10x.

Now playing out identical script in crypto: fundamentals roll snowball AI-driven. When public hears narrative in news, asset prices violently repriced.

From Grokbot to "City Taxation Model": Tens of Millions Agents Trading, Who Captures Value?

Luke Martin: Speaking agent evolution speed, last 1-2 months Grokbot deeply feels same. Previously asked it watch data continuously week, often quit lazy day; now虽距离真正递归自我改进还有差距 still gap to true recursive self-improvement, even without command, remembers markdown context file I gave, actively talks to another agent to tell me "Luke just briefed this." Too sci-fi!

Jordi Visser: Why I emphasized Grokbot launch week its "democratizing ease of use". Turns hardcore agent dispatch into smooth texting/gaming interaction. Just prompt set "Jarvis"-level chief agent, even now video chatting, can SMS Jarvis to coordinate sub-tech form cluster agents, auto pull past 3d strength/4d vol-price match stock list, return accurate results in 2 mins.

Slightly ago personal experience: swapping NJ license to NY, DMV site warns 1 month zero openings. Didn't wait dead, let AI search Reddit/X for hit same pit found workaround. Under 30s, AI precisely located direct booking entrance after specific steps, booked next day, hall took 10 mins yesterday done walk out. Everyone should force habit sending AI to decompose complex tasks, only training brain to collaboration mode catches up Instinct AI wave.

Luke Martin: Now trader instinct kicks in for fine calc. Suppose near future, hundreds millions autonomous AI agents high-freq use stablecoins trade, in this value network, profits accumulate whose pockets? OpenAI, Anthropic base models, or whom?

Jordi Visser: Value captured simultaneously at multiple key nodes across tech stack, core grasp toll collection logic and volume explosion power. Layer beneath, base model vendors/compute infra certainly continuously benefit; trade settle/chain flow side, assume all runs on stablecoins, Stripe frontend fiat/commerce interface collects toll, then L2s like Robinhood Chain atop Arbitrum harvest massive call fees, finally funnel tax to underlying mainnet Ethereum.

I feel public completely lacks concept of machine concurrent volume. Recall Apr last Google earnings Sundar announce Cloud Token consumption 8x YoY, surged to near 9 trillion, shortly after pierced quadrillion threshold, this is true terror behind giant CapEx frenzy. When millions/hundreds of millions agents operate 24/7 concurrently, transaction count unimaginable exponential numbers beyond human world.

Understanding scale, must break macro econ's cruelest knot: "Why liquidity failed in crypto before? Because past humans locked released massive wealth into illiquid dormant assets!" Even I/Raoul Pal often discuss global liquidity, must point out: globally only ~120T real cash exists corresponding to 900T book valuation, supported by massive fiat leverage. When buy $1M office building, money dies cement/steel, can't tear facade for Starbucks coffee, becomes trapped wealth.

If global asset sum (~3T crypto) ~903T, future core trend not depression collapse to zero, but when legacy leverage rationalizes & tokenization unlocks liquidity – circulating cur 120T→200T, existing real estate split into tradable on-chain shares – locked sleeping assets suddenly gain tradeability! Exactly Caitlin Long long emphasized "Velocity of Money": quicker trade/higher turnover, same capital supports more GDP output & protocol cut revenue.

Ethereum like expanding city matrix, needn't monopolize every frontend app, just via secure consensus & absolute trust attract Arb/RH/competitors build within walls, levy underlying security tax on all entrant businesses; Solana as high-speed satellite finance hub take over ultra-fast trade demands. As long as trust exists, underlying toll booths profit exponentially with city prosperity.

Robinhood Chain, Hyperliquid & "Silent IPO": How TradFi & Crypto Devour & Converge Bidirectionally?

Luke Martin: You mentioned RH Chain, absolutely currently TradFi/Web2 stepping into crypto most astonishing execution move. CEO Vlad Tenev advancement pace like military march, equity tokenization track leads far beyond expectations. Q2 report predictive mkt/on-chain deriv biz rev formally overtakes traditional equity trade, hasn't even counted own chain cuts. Many see tokenized stocks just 7×24 trade, why Vlad/Larry Fink so excited?

Jordi Visser: Directly touches core of my earlier "The Silent IPO" analysis: why many crypto early idealist fundamentalists choose clear positions & exit at this node? Early geeks built system pursuing absolute freedom/decentralized resistance, reject gov co-option, hate politicians mint meme coins, dislike Larry bringing Wall St giants strutting in, feel original intent spoiled, yell "I quit" cash out. But I pointed from start, historical laws never let new sys isolate from old sys forever standoff, old/new fin systems destined converge, ending new sys gradually absorbs/remodels/swallows old from inside out.

Standing this historical node looking back RH, see brilliant misalignment: currently crypto valuation/funding winter, massive projects can't raise VC; residing fiat home-field RH holds massive cash flows actively pushing equity/tokenization serves as transfusion pipe funneling TradFi capital into ETH/Arb etc foundations!. More legacy users holding tokenized equities naturally possess on-chain wallets, brings tangible new deposit. I myself designed covering 10 core tracks, 40 tokens + 6 cross-over listed cos eco index, purpose use Wall St understandable framework benchmark BTC.

Interestingly, recently observe MS analysts continually upgrade RH ratings, reports avoid mentioning crypto word reason simple they themselves haven't figured on-chain econ mechanism can't explain to HNWI legacy clients, forced use legacy growth rhetoric boost equity rating seize coverage priority.

In this 24/7 perp pricing convergence wave, regardless of CB index perps or phenomenon platform Hyperliquid rapidly breaking traditional equity closed-market barriers. Recently weekend outside panic many checking Sunday 5:30pm NFL halftime rush ask Monday S&P open drop how much crude open gap how much I directly opened CB index perp tell him OTC drops 28bps open approx same level gape jaw never knew weekend closed actually real-time 24/7 continuous pricing tape.)

This is Stan Druckenmiller publicly holding PURR layout Hyperliquid deepest intuition. Knowing his investment style (like keenly capturing Argentina politics/market change way), I can totally imagine scene: weekend discussing oil/SpaceX expected open price, staff reports "no need wait Mon, trade real-time on Hyperliquid now, open basically follows there".

For Wall st top traders used to keeping closed big screen weekend anxious waiting Sun night futures open, having year-round 7×24 real-time supply-demand game market irreversible dimensional strike, once seen never goes back. This why twitter almost weekly senior analyst suddenly enlightened by passerby on RH real-time quotes then quietly become next batch buyers.

From Tokenized Stocks to Private Credit Crisis: Where's RWA Next True Explosive Fuse?

Luke Martin: Currently market focus almost all on RH-led "US Equity Tokenization", reshaping trade experience real-time. But after US equity tokenization, if looking RWA next evolution phase, which asset class next explosively impactful like equity tokenization? Vast global bond market or underestimated corners?

Jordi Visser: In my view, next most explosive & urgently needing on-chain tokenization breakthrough core field is Private Credit, and broader private equity & real estate domains.

Reasons simple & urgent: currently whole legacy private credit market faces severe liquidity deadlock, massive capital tightly stuck immovable. Clearly see BDCs widely trading at significant discount; also Blue Owl/KKR/Apollo these private giants previously absorbed massive retail non-liq products triggered redemption squeeze/PR crisis public markets. Market actually always existed demand allocation private credit assets e.g. insurance needs long-stable config, merely due legacy layer lacks public continuous market-oriented circulation & precise repricing mechanisms, assets book face liquidity deadlock/severe mispricing.

If someone builds secondary liquidity exit channel via on-chain tokenization structure fact Apollo agile giant likely already actively studying advancing such plan tells needy cash-out trapped investors you can tokenize locked shares here institutional buyers willing take over at 20-30% transparent discount you regain cash exit today instantly Wall St ignites super headline effect!

Tokenized equities solves cross-border investors breaking exchange geo-blocks e.g. no need Japan acct config Japan equities discards legacy ETF index constraints 24h free config global assets space ample enough already BlackRock MMF collateral layer pioneers. Next who uses tokenization to unlock private credit & global real estate deadpool grips next RWA explosion valve.

AI × Crypto Not Zero-Sum: Stock Valuation Peak & Rise of "Micro AI-Native Businesses"

Luke Martin: Last core question & mental model conflict I pondered years. Past years when AI craze intense I instinct thought AI & crypto same global high-risk frontier asset track, AI too hot directly drains attention/funds from crypto, so Dario Amodei/Sam Altman drop heavy dynamic triggers AI surge, crypto often weak. But reading your recent deep article found you completely overturns either-or cognition, rather thinks they form synergy even catapault each other up. Detail breakdown internal connection?

Jordi Visser: Starts AI investment wave past years real evolution rhythm. First wave AI ChatGPT release first 2 yrs highly concentrated NVDA & few hyper-scale cloud giants; next year capital massively shifts to bottom-layer infra & Inference compute. In my tracked AI infra sector index past year at least 40+ stocks 2x up many even 200-500% up producing 5x explosive curves comparable to crypto alts.

This surge differs fundamentally from dot-com bubble ringing deafening warning bell to all sticking to legacy stocks: Stocks essentially a "hope trade" & "growth premium trade": Investors buy for 15-20% annualized expected returns; bonds long in bear high rates/inflation leverage house renting no longer sweet VC/PE liquidity blocked stocks almost only growth game playable in town. Problem standing today looking 3yrs out public mega-cap stocks this high growth premium faces brutal structural termination!

Look data sense weirdness: S&P 500 components earnings YoY surged ~30%, yet till now S&P broad gauge only rose 11-12% (annualized ~17%), proves this year extremely significant "multiple compression year". Many wonder since AI so grand why no 100x PE bubbles like before? Reality opposite: now Micron storage infra leader P/E surprisingly only 2-4x even absolute hegemon NVIDIA forward P/E based on next yr earnings expectation merely hovers 9-11x single-digit to low-double digit range!

Superficially extremely absurd but Wall St capital smell incredibly sharp: Stock prices dare not fly synchronously with high earnings because everyone fundamentally doubts "Terminal Value" of all listed giants.

No one knows 3yrs later if today giants maintain moats. Any new player emerging slight iterative breakthrough on tech route/AI evolution could anytime flip tables of incumbents. Picture humanoid robots scale landing mining/real industries newly founded mine company buys land zero start deploy robots full staff whereas heavy legacy burden supplying massive human workers traditional listed mining giants utterly unable in reality overnight sweep all humans to rebuild costs. Asset pricing model perpetuity cash flow assumption once shaken traditional giants multiples never climb again.

Meanwhile past US stocks why sit 70T market cap occupying 72% global tot is because past 20 yrs internet platform dividends almost monopolized harvested by US giants (like Germans wonder why domestic search engines >90% share given Google). And AI essence is extreme democratic leveling.

Future truly most vital commercial ecology I even extremely yearn for ETF index specifically buying global "annual rev only $200k tier micro companies". Past these husband-wife shops couldn't scale but future countless 1-2 person "AI-native micro businesses" leveraging agent legions can wildly penetrate major software/commerce gaps e.g. here chipping $200k small biz from Amazon/Google/trad soft giants simply multi-thread advance easily achieves $2M annual rev.

Single micro biz seems negligible but placing under global billions & massive agents simultaneous action scale they will continuously nibble listed companies' profits & growth space.

Conclusion already very clear: early stage indeed compute infra stocks had both hard earnings support & multi-fold/10x upside temporarily sucked away smart money originally flowing to crypto; but when legacy US equities due to AI disruption gradually lose past certainty high-valuation growth myth when capital focus forced leave static P/E reconverge on "Velocity of Money" & machine economy bottom-layer protocols total pool still under $4T naturally fitting agents frictionless collab operations crypto world will formally relay to become globe most imaginative brand-new growth story home.

Luke Martin: Jordi Visser, nearly an hour today information density extremely high, sincerely thank you for guest sharing these frontier thoughts!

Jordi Visser: You're welcome enjoyed conversation see ya later.

Luke Martin: Thanks for listening catch you next time.